The Personal Boundaries In America

This is the second part of my interview with Jilly Traganou. To view her background story and the first part, check Does Our English Accent Matter?

Q: Do you also teach your daughter about those things (cultural differences, how to behave “appropriately”)? Or do you think she knows these things very well?

J: Because she's been raised here, which is a very multicultural place, and because we constantly travel to Serbia and Greece where my husband and I come from, she is very familiar with cultural differences and very savvy in cultural diplomacy. But she knows very well the local codes as well, which, in my opinion, have very little to do with these diverse cultures we find in New York. So she is teaching me all the time.

Q: What does she teach you?

J: She constantly teaches me how not to cross the lines, all sorts of lines. Recently, for instance, we were at a restaurant with my daughter and another girl of the same age, and her parents who are from Serbia. We were having a very nice conversation. And then there was a group of young college students, maybe twenty-three, coming into this space and they were so loud. That was incredible. So immediately we were bombarded with noise. We were so upset. But these guys - it was three boys and a girl - couldn’t care less about us and whether they disturbed us and everyone else in the room. So we were astonished and we, the parents, were ready to complain and express our disturbance.

And as we were openly expressing our outrage our girls did this (Jilly raised her index finger, and did a “shush”) as if we were not allowed to express dissatisfaction loudly in front of this party who in fact had polluted the place with their noise and arrogance. They felt that we should not be confrontational even though they were so loud. This would not have been the same, I imagine, in a different country, at least it was not the same where I grew up!

I am very perplexed by the reaction of my daughter and her friend. Because in their world you're not supposed to criticize people who are different from you, and this sets a very strict boundary.

I think in other countries people can be much more open and direct. Say if there is a kid there at the playground who is very aggressive and is throwing stones, other parents would try to stop them. Here in the US people wouldn’t say anything. Probably they would just leave because I feel that here the rule is that nobody's supposed to tell others what to do. And one of the reasons for this, besides the emphasis on individuality that is immense in the US, is that we all come from different cultural backgrounds and I should not impose my norms on you. This makes sense in this multicultural context, but also leads to problems like what I described before. People not permitting themselves to express their feelings or disagreements but only in indirect ways.

Q: There's something I want to ask you because you mentioned boundary, which is something I've been thinking a lot. I’m trying to figure out what is boundary here. And apparently here, a boundary has to be set steel. It has to be very straight - like this is the wall, don't cross it.

J: Yes. In the case of the rude kid in the playground, there is no way that you can say anything to another person's child, even if their behavior puts other kids in danger. This is a very strong boundary emerging from what is considered civility and cultural distinction here. In other countries, the saying that it takes a village to raise a child is much more a reality, because indeed there is a sense of collectivity of values, as repressive as this might be, that is absent here.

Q: I think that might explain in China why you can express things like this if it bothers you. And if someone bothers me in a restaurant, I would say it. Though the boundaries in my culture are very blurred, and sometimes it could be a bit extreme.

J: Yes. And people of different generations would have different norms.

Q: Yes. In general, whoever is senior can be very judgmental on a junior in the family or in an organization. There's a lot of like stepping over. That’s the extreme part of it. But here, it sounds like it's on the other side of being extreme.

Q: So right now people are just supposed to do their own thing and not care about what others are doing?

J: Well I think they might care, but they are just not supposed to express their thoughts about it. Because if they do It, it might lead to a real conflict. And I think it's very difficult to overcome this conflict later on.

You see, for me, people don’t say enough “no” here. And for you, people do frequently say no here. Completely opposing observations! I think for me people, of course, did imply “no” in many other ways, but they don't say it clearly that often.

Q: hm, I had a misunderstanding about the culture here that I thought people are extremely honest. I tried to do that and I didn't quite get it.

J: In what ways did you experience people being too honest?

Q: Well in Chinese culture, you don't really say no.

J: Yes. You see, for me, people don’t say enough “no” here. And for you, people do frequently say no here. Completely opposing observations! I think for me people, of course, did imply “no” in many other ways, but they don't say it clearly that often. I encountered more situations where even though people did not say anything negative directly to me it really felt like a “no” later on. Which can make one confused: is It really no or is it not no? You're always free to interpret It. But at some point, you will know it. Yeah, because something will not happen (laugh).

Q: You only learn about it after.

J: Exactly. And that probably is gonna hurt even more in some cases. If it is a matter of rejection. It's better to know it earlier, just to face it, other than bearing some ambiguity. You know, the feeling that somebody is not really interested in you or not wanting to do something with you.

Q: Yeah I know that feeling.

- To be continued -

Anecdote

While editing this conversation, I went to Ichiran, a famous Ramen spot in Midtown designed for people to dine alone. Every guest orders and dines in an individual compartment and human interactions are limited to a minimum. Two Mandarin-speaking girls who sat next to me never stopped their passionate gossip, and they were never aware of the curated quietness and solitary of the restaurant. And, I did not say anything. I recalled my conversation with Jilly, how amusing it is that I promised I would step out and stop rude neighbors?